The Greenhorn Chronicles 51: Bob Marshall, 5-Time World Champion Blacksmith

Publisher: In-Sight Publishing

Publisher Founding: March 1, 2014

Web Domain: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com

Location: Fort Langley, Township of Langley, British Columbia, Canada

Journal: In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal

Journal Founding: August 2, 2012

Frequency: Three (3) Times Per Year

Review Status: Non-Peer-Reviewed

Access: Electronic/Digital & Open Access

Fees: None (Free)

Volume Numbering: 12

Issue Numbering: 1

Section: A

Theme Type: Idea

Theme Premise: “Outliers and Outsiders”

Theme Part: 29

Formal Sub-Theme: None

Individual Publication Date: October 22, 2023

Issue Publication Date: January 1, 2024

Author(s): Scott Douglas Jacobsen

Word Count: 11,141

Image Credit: None.

International Standard Serial Number (ISSN): 2369-6885

*Interview conducted on December 9, 2022.* 

*Please see the footnotes, bibliography, and citations, after the publication.*

Abstract

Bob Marshall is from Southport, England. He has been crowned World Championship Blacksmith 5 times at the Calgary Stampede five times. He was inducted into the International Horseshoeing Hall of Fame in 1994. Marshall discusses: being a farrier; the term “blacksmith”; the techniques pioneered by the Egyptians; techniques mastered by the Romans adapting from the Egyptians; some rewarding experiences; differentiate between a skilled farrier and a less skilled farrier; the word “lame” and the term “sound”; World Champion five times; a more skilled farrier; training newer farriers; punishments; longevity; finding good farriers or a good farrier shortage; the industry; silica rings; an excellent job conducting their competition grounds and their treatment of the foot care of the horse; grass; Langley, British Columbia; the future; health concerns.

Keywords: blacksmith, Bob Marshall, Calgary Stampede, Egyptians, England, farrier, farriering, furrier, grass, lame, Langley, longevity, Romans,  silica, sound, Southport, Spruce Meadows, World Champion.

The Greenhorn Chronicles 51: Bob Marshall, 5-Time World Champion Blacksmith

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: So, today, it is with Bob Marshall. So, regarding being a farrier, did you always work out of British Columbia?

Bob Marshall: No, I’ll tell you how I became a farrier, okay? Is that all right?

Jacobsen: Yeah, sure.

Marshall: Okay. First, I did a five-year apprenticeship with my dad in England, in the North of England. Then, after that, I was offered a job in the South of England, in the Cotswolds. And with the job came a house and so forth, and it was an exceptional opportunity for me because I wasn’t married then. But anyway, we got permission to get married, Adrian and I. We did, and we went down to The Cotswolds in England. And after that, I spent two years there and learned a lot of the… how can I say? I do not want to put my dad down. My dad gave me some excellent basics, absolutely first-class. I was allowed to see a few more high-quality horses. The people I worked with were organized, and I learned a lot from them.

My wife didn’t like it down there after a few years. So we went back to the North of England. I didn’t want to go, but my wife wanted to, and that was her. So I went back there. In the winter, in the north of England, it could have been better as far as horseshoeing goes because everything’s going to close down. There wasn’t much going on, hunting going on down there. Consequently, it was tough for us. Anyway, when I was there, somebody phoned me from Canada. They were the principal of a huge vocational school. In that vocational school, they had a farrier program, but the instructor of this farrier program decided to go off. They were stuck with a beautiful opportunity and offered me the job to go over there as a guest instructor. We scraped the money together. I still need to find out where we got it from, but we got the plane fare and off to Canada.

I get on the plane. Who am I sitting next to? This guy, a professional, was a furrier. I’m a farrier; he’s a furrier [Laughing]. We got talking. His hobby was collecting horseshoes [Laughing]. This is historically weird. Anyway, we got pretty friendly, and when we got to Edmonton, he said, “I’m going to make sure you get in the hotel properly because in Edmonton, at the moment, it is called Klondike Days.” Klondike Days meant that everybody in Edmonton, as we got off the plane, was all dressed in the same outfits they wore during Klondike Days. I thought I’d gone back in time.

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Marshall: [Laughing] Anyway, I can still remember he got me into this hotel; I think it was 14 dollars for the hotel room. I still believe it. Anyway, [Laughing] shows how naive I was; I’m going up, so I couldn’t get my luggage up. This guy picks it up and says, “Hey, that’s mine.” [Laughing] He said, “I’m just carrying it for you.” I said I’m not used to it. I realized, “Man, I’m from bloody Liverpool, mate, you do not do that” [Laughing]. Anyway, he got me to the hotel room and there he was, there was a phone and television. I said, “I didn’t ask for this. This is extra money.” He said, “No sir, they’re in every room.” I’m just trying to explain how naïve I was out there.

The next day, we got on this bus to Dawson Creek, one straight road. It was an eight-hour journey on a bus. I could not believe it, honestly. We eventually arrived, and the appropriate people greeted me and went to the school. But when they showed me this vocational school, it was a former Air Force Base. It was incredible. I mean, the buildings were massive; all central heated, all air-conditioned, and then they showed me the farrier shop. This is the first time I’ve seen something like it. I mean, all rubber floored. It was massive, like I said; it was air-conditioned, centrally heated, and I thought, “Wow,” there are all the forges lined up perfectly, and that’s how my career started in Dawson Creek.

There is a bit of a humorous side to this. Because there was a war, and many people decided to get into Canada and get out because they didn’t want to go to this war. So they all hid in the bush. I mean hundreds of these people. The Canadian government decided to bring them out of the bush and offer them a trade. So you can imagine what I was getting to teach to be farriers; I mean, these people probably had never appropriately washed for a long time because they came out of the bush, but the Canadian government did a good job. They brought them back, and they offered to give them a trade. That’s where I came in to teach some of these people the art of farriery.

I will jump ahead now to a few years later. I get a phone call from this guy, and he says you probably need to remember me; my name is Tim Biggins. I said, “How could I possibly forget you?” [Laughing] “What is giving you the cause to phone me?” And he said, “Bob, you wouldn’t believe it. What you did with me in Dawson Creek changed my life, I couldn’t care less whether I worked, but you allowed me to know what it was like to earn a good living.” So I said, “What are you doing now?” He says, “You wouldn’t believe it. I am the president of the British Columbia Blacksmiths Association.” You’ve got to be kidding [Laughing]. I said, “Where did that come about?” He said, “I was successful in blacksmithship, not shoeing but blacksmithship, and it went from there.” And I said, “What about your buddy?” A guy called Greg and he says, “You wouldn’t believe what he’s doing.” I said, “Go on, I probably would.” He says, “He is in the Kootenays with draft horses and shows them all.”

He said the two of us had had great experiences, and we are grateful for what you told us. I thought, ‘Man, that’s such a nice thing to say.’ So, I rolled on a bit on that, but that’s part of what this job has done for me. It is just incredible in many different ways. Does that make sense?

Jacobsen: You brought up the term “blacksmith.” What I have noticed, at least in the discipline of show jumping, some of the riders of the newer generation, a farrier is a farrier. To those in their 60s or 70s, those whom I’ve talked to, they will call a farrier a farrier. Sometimes, they will call a farrier, a blacksmith.

Marshall: Yeah. A lot of it depended on the area and so forth, but everybody understood it. He’s a blacksmith to horses. Oh, he’s a farrier to horses… it was pretty clear to everybody involved. I was often called the blacksmith in this place, but it was called the farrier in other barns that go down the road. So it is just one of those things. Both words mean the same thing.

Jacobsen: And are there any other trades that genuinely are as if they’re from the medieval period? You work with heat, steel, a hammer, and a nail. The techniques changed slightly, but the fundamental premises are the same.

Marshall: No, the techniques have stayed the same since the Egyptians. It was just after the Egyptians that they started to forge shoes. The Romans were some of the first to generate shoes and were good at it. They were staying in England, you see some of these stables, and they’ve got some old Roman shoes hanging up on the barn though to show everybody. The horses were more miniature in those days, in Roman days, but all the basics were the same.

Jacobsen: What were the techniques pioneered by the Egyptians?

Marshall: I believe the Egyptians used rope horseshoes; I read about that anyway. They used rope and horseshoes to cover the feet and protect them from being sore. And then they went on from the strings to solid steel.

Jacobsen: What techniques were mastered by the Romans adapting from the Egyptians?

Marshall: The Romans forged their shoes just like we do today.

Jacobsen: Wow.

Marshall: They were excellent blacksmith farriers thing. There are a lot of Roman shoes in the stables just hung up there to show. They were smaller because horses were more miniature. They covered most of the foot, which is what they needed to do. So it was still close. The Romans are clever. I mean, some of the roads they built. There’s a road called the Fosse Way when you come from the Coast of England. You get on the Fosse Way. It is dead straight for about 18-19 miles. There’s no curve in it. How did they manage to do that? It is unreal. And at the end of that, there are some ruins called Chedworth Cathedral, and the mosaic tilings and the concrete were stone pedestals that they put the floors on for the houses and the buildings. It was incredible; at the end of that, there was a giant forge, like a big fireplace. So, it is a centrally heated building built by the Romans. So incredibly clever people; it goes back to having my trade like this so I could travel and look at all this stuff.

Jacobsen: This is great. A lot of my best friends when I was in high school, were people who were retired or near retired. I get this same conversational sense where we’re going to have a theme, but the conversation is going to go any which way it is going to go. So it is lovely for me.

So, as your skills developed, what were some rewarding experiences during that time? As your skill set grew more and more, this is obviously as you are in the workforce more. You are training people, moving along, and going into competitions. How did this develop over time, too?

Marshall: Okay, what’s happening now is we have many farrier competitions. Did you realize that?

Jacobsen: I only found out about a month and a half ago.

Marshall: One of the leading competitions was in Calgary at the Calgary Stampede, where they used to hold the world championships. I competed in that quite a few times, and so forth, which was successful. I met many people from all over the world, and, after that, everybody, all the farriers from all over North America, all over the world, came together. There was this significant unity and a spread of knowledge that was unbelievable. And we had at one time 23 countries competing at Calgary. To exchange ideas, it was just fantastic. Everybody, lots of friends and so forth, and people started to get invited to go to different parts of the world and from then on, it was just like a giant spider’s web; it has just increased. It is just absolutely fantastic.

But going back to the basics of shoeing the horse, it has stayed the same since Roman times. All I’ve used is different steels and so forth. I went aluminum for the racehorses. I have even made titanium shoes, which weren’t necessary, but we did it for the heck of it. But, the standards and message might be different, not so much of a statement but transportation, that’ll be these big fancy trucks with everything you can imagine in there. But what goes on the foot is similar to when I was an apprentice. It is still the same. Going on the horseshoe and going on the foot hasn’t changed much at all.

Jacobsen: How do you differentiate between a skilled farrier and a less skilled farrier? I do not mean things like, ‘The shoe fits.’

Marshall: If it is a skilled farrier with experience, he’ll have the same clients for many years. They’ll shoe the horse. In five weeks, they’re asked to go back again, and so on and so forth. And some farriers have been going to these barns for over 20-30 years. That means that’s a skilled farrier, but the ones not asked to go back again, there’s a reason for it. You can lame a horse or make a horse unsound in no time at all with a fundamental mistake. Once you do that, you are done, especially if it is through ignorance or lack of experience. Is that okay?

Jacobsen: It helps. I hear these terms a lot. I haven’t quite figured out what they mean to different people in the industry: the word “lame” and the term “sound.” What makes a horse lame compared to a horse being unsound?

Marshall: Okay, it is the same as is. If you stick a stone in the bottom of your shoes, you will walk unevenly, won’t you? That’s a simple remedy. That can happen with a horse; a rock could stick in the bottom of its hooves, and the treatment is to take the stone out, but if your horse is shod improperly, that lameness can create a significant problem and give a long time, they owe it to the horse, and sometimes they have to be euthanized, and that’s the way it is. Inside the horse’s foot, there’s an incredible amount of anatomy going on in there, which are susceptible tissues. When you think about it, they have a tactile nose on the bottom of their foot, whereas we have them at the end of our fingertips, almost the same.

A horse can walk on something and feel the ground underneath it to say whether it is safe. Here’s an example: we used to shoe horse horses in England that were called shankers. Now, you probably have yet to hear of that. What these shankers did, they used to catch shrimps with a horse and cart, and the coaches have these massive wheels on them so they can get into the water, and the horses would walk up, so the water was just over the backs of the horse. Those horses obviously couldn’t see the bottom where their feet was, but they could feel it with their tactile nose and sometimes they’ll also stop and it would back up and turn, do another way and probably what it was, was quick sound in front. Now, how do these horses know that? They must have it through that tactile nose in the bottom of their feet, and they sensed it, ‘I’m not going through there,’ the driver would just let them go, and everything was fine. So that’s how sensitive the bottom of the horse’s foot is and how incredible a horse is. I’m not good with words. You probably guessed that already.

Jacobsen: But your examples are apparent.

Marshall: Okay, good.

Jacobsen: Now, one thing my farrier friend did mention was that you are crowned, let’s call it, World Champion five times for your skill in being a farrier. What are the specific kinds of qualifiers tested at these championships to be crowned World Champion?

Marshall: I was crowned five times World Champion by winning at Calgary Stampede.

Jacobsen: And what were the criteria tested for that?

Marshall: Oh, okay. Part of them was many different parts of the competition because it was a three-day deal. Sometimes we had to shoe draft horses. Another time we’d have to shoe light horses, riding horses. Another time we’d have to show what they call the roadster, which is a horse that used to pull carts on the road. There were three different, let’s say, levels there: the riding horse, the driving horse, and the draft horse. You must be skilled to be at a reasonable level with all those three. Luckily, I was trained by some of the best, so it worked out for me.

Jacobsen: Who did you look up to as you became a more skilled farrier?

Marshall: Oh, good point. Yeah, how can I say now? I was in the North of England with my dad, and then, as I said before, I did go down to the South of England for quite a while. Still, I met some exciting farriers when I was starting to compete. I went to this one competition. I said to my dad what the heck are we doing, never competed before. He said, “Just do what you do at home.” I said, “Okay,” so I did what I did at home [Laughing]. There were three divisions in this. There was the open division, which was obviously that quality people. And then there was a prize for the under the 30s and an award for the under 26s, and I’m only 24, so I could get a mention in the under 26s.

Anyway, I just did what my dad told me. I just did the job and did the horse and so forth, and they came to give out the prizes, and they said the first one was a guy called Tom Allison, a respected farrier. Anyway, the next one was RH Marshall. I thought, ‘Who the heck is that?’ So I’m looking around when somebody says, “That’s you, you silly bugger” [Laughing].

There I was a second, meaning I must have won all the others underneath it. It was one heck of a day. That’s where I met this Tom Allison. He said, “Where did you get training?” I said, “My dad just gave me the basics.” He said, “You’ve got a pretty good basic, mate.” [Laughing] We became excellent friends after that. We used to visit and work with him, which slightly refined me. He’d show me all sorts of different things. Again, that’s what the farrier industry is like. You lock on to somebody with these talents; if you are fortunate enough to go with them, that’s pretty good. So that’s how it started, and it was a tremendous friendship.

Jacobsen: Have you ever had people come up looking up to you in a similar manner?

Marshall: Oh yes, I used to do seminars and so forth. They’d come up from all over the place. Of course, I went to Australia eight times for workshops, so it gave me a chance to try to travel and so forth. But like I said – I know I’m repeating myself, but it is one hell of a career. My wife and I still talk about it because I was doing so many seminars worldwide. At one time, I ended up with flight miles for us both to go first class to Australia. And that takes much collecting. And yes, we stopped off in Fiji on the way to Australia. Then next time, we stopped somewhere else, in Hawaii. It is just fantastic.

Jacobsen: When you are training newer farriers, what have been some of the essential skills and methods that you try to get across to them: things to look for, things to do right, not wrong?

Marshall: First of all, what I try and pass on to them is that when you are showing somebody else’s horse, that horse is so vital to them and important to them, you have got to do your utmost to look after it because if you do not, there’s going to be some fault in there somewhere and you will not be asked to go back and so forth. That’s pretty straightforward, but they must also realize that much safety is involved. If you put a shoe on that is too slippery, you could cause some serious injury to somebody or even kill them. Some people have been killed because they’ve had a horse go into a deep hole or something. A deep hole is not much different than losing a shoe and slipping. So that’s your responsibility as a farrier; you’ve got to consider that every time you shoe a horse. You’ve got to put the appropriate amount of shoe on with the tracks it requires without putting too much stress on it.

In other words, let me simplify that, if you put a shoe on that replicates the primary growth of a regular foot, you are not far off. But if you start to put on extensions, which some people do because they’ve got this weird idea about things, or they’ll put something extra wide, so it is supposed to straighten the legs which they do not need straightening because that’s how God put them. So, quite often, you get these people that want to show that they’ve got these silly skills that could try and straighten legs out and so fort, but it doesn’t work. You have to keep the horse sound. Does that make sense?

Jacobsen: Yes.

Marshall: Okay.

Jacobsen: Are the punishments more institutional for people who do lousy ferrying? So they get punished by some organization or more social in that people will stop hiring them?

Marshall: Oh yes, okay. There is a body of the Farriers Association that could give them a bit of warning, but as far as taking them to court and things like that, that doesn’t happen, which sometimes is unfortunate. But that’s just how it is. If you are doing something wrong, you better correct it; otherwise, you will lose your clients. That’s just how it is. If you do something wrong, you must move or change your location sooner or later. And then that levels everything out like in other trades; you keep building houses that keep falling. You aren’t going to do too many, are you? [Laughing]

And you know something? Horses are precious now. I mean, the value is unbelievable. It is 100,000 dollars for a horse now with nothing, just a cheap one. So, every time you get onto those horses, you are dealing with a lot of money. These are their buddies. You have to look after them.

Jacobsen: So, for individuals entering the industry, what are your recommendations for longevity? How do they build up a company?

Marshall: First of all, if you are going to get into the industry, you need to work with somebody qualified and recognized. How’s that? So you must spend at least two years travelling with them, helping them, and getting as much knowledge as possible. And then usually the person looking after them, they’re more talented. The one you are working with or working for, they typically find some clients for you that you can branch out and start doing on your own and then it goes out from that. The good farriers allow the young lads or girls to work with them. Eventually, they’ll say, “Okay, you can tell this client and take that client,” it all works out quite well because what it is is just lots of horses around. Nobody’s struggling for horses these days. Does that make sense?

Jacobsen: Yes. I’ve noticed in some discussions with equestrians of different kinds of stripes that there is a potential issue in some sectors of Canada with two things: one is finding good farriers or a good farrier shortage, and then another is a good vet shortage. Is that accurate to you?

Marshall: Oh boy! Now, you are touching the subject. This is tough for me. It is like any trade, mate. I mean, there’s good and evil in this. There are sure vets in our area; I wouldn’t trust him with a bloody butcher knife, let alone a horse. I do not know how to go from that because when you work for the veterinarian, the farriers and the vets usually get together, and quite often, an excellent vet would turn around and say, “Look, I’m not sure what this is, it is in the foot, I recommend you call your farrier, and I’ll meet him, and we’ll take extra aid and work together and figure it out.” That’s the way to do it.

Unfortunately, like farriers or vets, they decide to do things on their own, and if they’re lucky, they might get some results, but quite often, they do not get good results. And eventually, it’ll work out, but sooner or later, the vet and the farrier must work together. I mean, I’ve got some of that. There are many farriers like that; they get on excellent with the vet, and the vet says, “No, call your farrier. I’ll meet him here,” or “Call the farrier, and if he needs me, call me, and I’ll meet him with my X-rays.” That’s an excellent situation to react to.

Jacobsen: Regarding the industry of farriering in Canada at the moment, what are some of the positives, and what are some of the negatives that you note?

Marshall: It is positive; the whole industry worldwide is buoyant. With all our connections with different farriers from all over the world exchanging ideas, it is a positive.

Jacobsen: What core ideas are exchanged between farriers to improve the industry?

Marshall: Yeah, like I said before, because of the modern technologies and so forth, the ideas that are coming from different countries, it is just unbelievable. For instance, I mean the farrier competitions; I mentioned this before: 23 countries competed at Calgary the last time I competed. So that gives you an idea that the industry’s gone worldwide. So it is incredible. Does that help?

Jacobsen: It does help. I’ve heard similar things from the show jumping world, where, in the 70s, you had several countries competing, but now it is upwards of 80 or more countries competing. So, it has expanded tremendously.

Marshall: Yeah, and a tremendous amount of money involved as well.

Jacobsen: Yes, that’s right. [Laughing] Do you think the costs of horses now are a barrier for some people to compete at the highest level of some of these sports disciplines? Is the cost of a horse, purchasing price, a barrier to many taking part in the highest levels of these sports disciplines: dressage, show jumping, horse racing, and so on? As you mentioned earlier, a horse costs around 100,000 dollars in most places as a starting price. This wasn’t the case before; it was cheaper. Does this naturally prevent entry into some sports?

Marshall: It does, yes, because, like I said, it is a costly sport to get in. When I told 100,000 dollars for a horse, that was cheap; that’s the starting point. To other examples of how extraordinary this profession can be, let me tell you a story about a good friend who’s an excellent farrier. He’s well known, a good rider and horseman, and extremely wealthy. He turned into a multi-millionaire, but he was asked to go to Saudi Arabia to shoe a horse from England anyway. Now, can you imagine the cost of that? That is bizarre. And he told me himself. He says, “Bob, I go there on holiday twice a year. I do not need to go back there. And this is what I told him.” He said, “I go there on holiday; I do not want to go and shoe a horse.” And they just said, “Look, Grant, we’ve had two farriers looking at this horse; he’s expensive. What will it cost you to get out here and help us?” And he just straight off said, “20,000 Euro,” They said, “Book a ticket.”

Jacobsen: Holy hell.

Marshall: Yeah. So he flew over there. This is the best part; being a good horseman and a rider, he looked at it. The two farriers were there that had shod the horse. Grant told me it was exceptionally well fed. There was nothing to do with the shoeing; he went up to the horse’s shoulders, moved it towards the neck, pinched it, and cowered down. He said, “That’s your problem. You need an equine chiropractor; you do not need a farrier.” So he said, “I got my cheque and returned home.” [Laughing]

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Marshall: That’s just some of the stories that are bizarre in this profession, it is. I mean, the money is just bloody unbelievable.

Jacobsen: What are some of the bizarre stories in your professional history?

Marshall: My bizarre stories? How much time have we got? [Laughing]

Jacobsen: I have all day. I have the day off.

Marshall: It is hard to say. At least some of them are; I mean, as I said before, my primary training was from my dad. I owe so much damn everything to him. He gave me the solid basics. That’s all I started with. It came to a situation where I was asked to do some demonstration. I told you this before, in Washington State. It went from there. The following way, I flew all over the United States, then to Australia, and it just continued. After a while, I didn’t have time to shoe any horses, so I kept a few of my clients, but I was flying around the rest of the time. So, it has been an incredible career in that respect. Does that answer any questions, or am I repeating myself?

Jacobsen: No, not at all. What would you consider your most expensive shoeing experience where you charge the most money?

Marshall: I do not think I’ve been to that stage. `I do not think I’ve charged a lot. Many years ago, I was asked to do a horse in Vancouver, and I said I didn’t know how much I could trust because it was a long way to go from where I lived, and they just said we’d pay you by the hour and I said well okay, it is a 100 dollars an hour and that’s what they did. I forget the total, but it was a good wage for me. That’s the most I ever did. Some of these other guys now here, they shoe three horses in a day. They’re walking away with 1500 dollars. I used to shoe six horses a day on average, so you can imagine how much money is involved in the farriers down in these areas where the horses are like multi-million dollars that everybody’s used to spending lots of money, but they’re just used to it. I do not know whether they’ve been conned into it or not, but they’re just used to it [Laughing].

Jacobsen: How do farriers make their prices? What sets the industry standard?

Marshall: Well, it is just wide open. It is a wide-open market, so it is hard to answer that question. What you do, you have to look at the situation where you are asked to go. You see what the quality of the horses are, you ask what the usual prices are, and if the prices are, say, 400 a set, but asked you to go down there because they wanted something a little bit better. So, now, you can charge 500 a group, for want of a number. And that’s the way it happens, and quite often, some of those people; like I said, they’re just willing to pay. But you better be on the ball if you are going to do that. Does that answer the question?

Jacobsen: Yeah.

Marshall: Okay, You seemed hesitant there when you said yes.

Jacobsen: [Laughing] I’m also thinking about another question to ask based on the response because I’ve been doing interviews for so long. I like to do improvisatory interviews more than scripted. I go more naturally based on the given answers.

Marshall: Oh, okay.

Jacobsen: Do you find that there’s a common industry standard for farriers themselves, or has there yet to be a standard set in the same sense of the cost? It is just wide open.

Marshall: Again, I need help understanding that question. Simplify it for me.

Jacobsen: Sure. Is a minimum standard set for farriers in Canada?

Marshall: In what respect? In respect of what we charge or the quality of the work?

Jacobsen: l would say the quality of the work because we just talked about cost.

Marshall: The quality of the work within British Columbia is basically what you asked; you can go to the ranching industry and still shoe your horses there for 150 dollars a set, which is nothing. You go another 50 miles in one direction, and you’d be paying 300 dollars. It comes down to what the horse is doing. You will only get paid a little if it is a ranch horse. And if horses were shod like ranch horses every day worldwide, the equine system would be much better because they do a good job. When you think about a horse that gallops around all day chasing cows for four or five hours a day, probably 30 miles a day, they’ve got to have some decent shoes on them, which they do. But if you took that same horse out of the show jumping industry and tried to ride it down for four or five hours over the hills, it’d probably break down. Do you understand me? It wouldn’t be able to handle it. So it comes down to many of the basics, its conditioning and what other conditions to do with a job there and chasing cattle is pretty tough.

Jacobsen: How often does a ranch horse need hoof care done?

Marshall: Just like any other really, every four to five weeks because what happens you see is the shoes might not wear out, but the foot grows like our fingernails, so they get long. If they’re not trimmed back, it puts a lot of tension on the tendons and the ligaments of the leg and therefore can cause serious problems. So they have to be done in the summertime between every four and a half to five weeks. In the wintertime, the growth does slow down slightly, so you can extend it another couple of weeks sometimes.

Jacobsen: What are the main problems with a horse’s hoof? Like, you are coming to this as a professional. You see a hoof. What are the issues?

Marshall: There are various problems. First, the main concern would be breeding the horse and whether the feet on the front end…. Usually, you do not get many back-end problems with a foot. Still, on the front end, we can get what is called a club foot, which means that one foot is smaller and more upright than the other. That’s from the leg basically. Mother nature is trying to provide natural treatment for the horse. In other words, you’ve got one leg shorter than the other; the farrier tries to give that by growing one foot a little bit longer to match them all up. And often, people try to intervene with that too much and create more of a problem. Does that answer your question?

Jacobsen: Yes, it does.

Marshall: Okay. Now, compared to when I was an apprentice with my dad, I probably only saw one or two horses with odd feet. Rarely, we saw a club foot. Now, something happened with the industry, whatever it was. I do not know, but, now, it is rare that you find a horse with two feet the same on the front of the horse. It is just gone that bad. There are so many odd feet now; it is unbelievable. It is not all done through the farrier industry. There are systems that do poor breeding, etc. That’s my opinion.

Jacobsen: Which country does the breeding the best?

Marshall: Boy! You put me on the spot now. It is not so much who does the best breeding, but what happens when the foal is born. If it can be looked after as it should be, it should have plenty of room to roam and gallop around on fields. And what we used to do in Britain; if a foal in the thoroughbred industry or the show jumping industry were born, they would send it over to Ireland, where it could be turned out for about a year and a half. Where it can run on some good natural green grass and that would do the job. They’d come back after a year and a half, so now they’re two-year-olds, and they can start working them slowly, but it helps to progress, to get some substance underneath them or within them. Ireland is an incredible place. What it is, they say that something in the grass that makes them stronger. I do not know, but I know they still do that in Englan. They’ll send horses over to Ireland for the air or something.

Jacobsen: What are other issues other than the mismatch of the hoofs caused by the farriers, though, this time?

Marshall: I would say probably the most common fault is that the hoses are shod way too heavy. The shoes are too heavy. They’re too long. They’re just generally way too big. They do not fit the horse. If you trim the foot down, you should replace that piece of foot that you trimmed off with a bit of steel with the exact dimensions all the way around. In other words, if you trim 3/8th of an inch off and then put 3/8th of an inch back with the shoe, people do not do that. They’ll take the 3/8th of an inch off and then put half an inch on and much broader. For instance, measurements instead of taking something 5/8th by 3/8th, they’ll put one inch by half, which is heavier and way too much for the horse to burden. Does that make sense?

Jacobsen: Yeah, I think so.

Marshall: Yeah. So, I’m repeating myself, but it is a matter of whatever you take off, replace it with steel. That’s it, as close as you can. This has worked for about 64 years. So I’m not going to change now [Laughing].

Jacobsen: Are there any things that when you look at a horse’s hoof, it is so bad you cannot do anything with it? Are there any conditions like that?

Marshall: Yeah. You often get what they call seedy toe, a fungus that goes in between the bone of the foot, and the bone of the foot is attached to the wall by a lamina. And what it does is it affects the laminae, and the whole part between the bones on the horse’s division, the outside surface, becomes separate, and there’s a significant big gap in there. That often has to be removed because it cannot survive without oxygen.

But that outside wall has got to be removed before it gets any worse. That can cause significant problems, starting with just a tiny opening in the structures between the wall and the coffin bone and the bone inside. They are just there. It can go fast. They thrive with no oxygen so that whole wall has to be removed and start the new growth again. It is incredible how fast it can happen.

Jacobsen: How does the industry in Canada compare to the American or Western European industries for farriers?

Marshall: I would say, in general, the better quality of farriers is still in Britain, in the British Isles. You can rarely go anywhere in Britain. You can have a horse in the north of England and send it down to the south of England. You can guarantee that it’ll be shod by someone else, and we will do it identically to how you’ve done it. In Canada, that’s not the case. In the United States, this is not the case; they will change things in any way they can to make more money. I hate to say that, but it is true. The more gadgets you put on, the more you can charge; unfortunately, that’s a sad thing. I’m repeating myself because the farriers make a good living anyway. They do not need to do all that stuff, putting bizarre things on. And when you think about it, when they spend that much time and that much money buying all these crazy weird things for the feet, by the time they put them on, they’re not making that much money even if they charge 500 dollars a set because it is cost them so much for all the gadgets. But if you stick to the same old basics and shoe them appropriately, the horses go better, and everybody’s happy.

I know I’m repeating it, but the farriers’ responsibility is to keep the horse sound so it can be ridden in most terrains without causing injury to itself by tripping or slipping because that can create a problem for the rider. They can get seriously hurt. You may have heard of this place, but there is a massive place in Calgary for children. It is probably one of the biggest in the world. They were videotaping it. These horses coming up to a jump. Somehow, when they turned, it twisted. It was a challenging course, and then he started picturing all these shoes coming off the horse and to think that about ten different riders coming up to the jump and then you could see that she was rolling off them. They’re moving away because they were shod with too much shoe. It is like us. We have running shoes to go running in, and you have walking shoes to walk in, and you have dancing shoes to dance in. So you do not go running in the marathon with dancing shoes [Laughing].

It is so simple. It’s ridiculous that people have to start changing things and making it difficult. Like I said, your responsibility is for that rider. They can get seriously hurt. You only need one of the horses to slide, and you can get some significant problems. I might drift off the subject sometimes, but I start thinking of situations, and I drift a bit, so you have to put up with me [Laughing].

Marshall: How is it shoeing a horse using aluminum versus steel?

Marshall: It is lighter. What happens is that an excellent example of this is the horse that my dad used to shoe, that famous one called Red Rum. Now, Red Rum was stabled in our tiny hometown. It raced in Liverpool, which was 20 miles away, a renowned race, gruelling. But anyway, when my dad shod Red Rum, they take the shoes off and put the aluminum ones on; they’re the same size but lighter and make a difference for approximately a day. Then, after that, everything comes back, and the aluminum shoes feel the same as the steel ones for up to 24 hours, but if you are lucky enough, like my dad and the horse, it was only an hour away from the racecourse. So within two or three hours, he was riding with feeling good. It is like you; when you take your shoes off and put a pair of running shoes on, you bounce around a little, don’t you? You feel good. Well, that’s exactly what the horse feels like, but after a while, you walk around in those running shoes for a time, and then they return to feeling like ordinary shoes. And we captured that quality within the hour of them being put on. Does that make sense?

And this is tremendous, I got to say. My dad inspired me when he got to shoe that horse; that was his pride and joy. One of the most prominent people was chasing racers in the world. They’ve run in it five times. And incidentally, out of all the horses that run in it, only seven horses ever run in it five times. The rest they couldn’t run in after the first time. They were tired, worn out, or broken down, and ran in it five times. They buried him at the racecourse and in the finishing post, going past the finishing post.

He was 32 when they put him down, which is another incredible thing. So again, I’m going back to what it is like to be a farrier and to be involved with a horse like that is unbelievable. I was involved with a horse that was in Canada. It jumped the Canadian record in Toronto. It jumped several at the Royal Winter Fair, and that was my pride and joy, and it is so neat to be involved with something like that. 

Jacobsen: This is helpful for me to get a side perspective. The primary relationships a farrier will have between the vet and the owner in the professional sphere. What are other secondary relationships farriers have, if any, while working?

Marshall: Secondary relationships with the horse owner?

Jacobsen: When they’re working with the horse when it is first born and onwards, you noted they work with the vet and the owner. Are there any other industries that do not work with them as much but still work with them to ensure things are running smoothly?

Marshall: Oh yes, there probably are some, but those are the three main ones: the veterinarian, the owner, and the farrier. And then the others are only looked after temporarily if they go to a show; they may have a different vet there, but it is only temporary. It is only for that show. Then they come back to the original stable and back to the same people concerned. Same with the farriers; they go to Spruce Meadows in Toronto. They’ll have another farrier shoeing it, but hopefully, if there’s any problem with that horse, they will detect it straight away and then call the farrier that originally shod it to ask why that was done and then go from there, have a professional explanation to each other. But that’s a bit about the owner is the owner. So, the farriers and the veterinarians do vary in other places. As you said, you can’t expect to follow them down to Florida, but telephone communications.

Jacobsen: When a horse is new versus when a horse is retired or old, what are the different things that need to be managed regarding the care of the hoof?

Marshall: Not a lot because they’re doing only some strenuous work once it retires. It is a matter of whether the horse can and whether he’s got the foot that can handle it, which many of them had at that time. It is to take the shoes off, have him barefoot, and let him enjoy his retirement. That’s the best thing. But I have to tell you this: what can happen, and again, it is communication. I had to look at a horse and screw its metals. This stallion was worth a lot of money, but he had a club fhoof which was steeper than the other. One steeper than the other one and, of course, if he was being ridden and jumped and so forth, you had to shoe accordingly. But when he retired, they told me, “Can you do anything with that hoof to make it look more normal?” I said I could, but I told them you can’t jump him. “Oh no, we’re not going to jump because he’s retired.” They said. I said, “Okay, this is against my beliefs, but I will do it, and I’ll be as careful as I can,” which I did. Guess what they did?

Jacobsen: Oh no.

Marshall: They didn’t jump him with the rider on the back, but when people came to buy some of his offspring; they would jump him over a giant fence and ride it. I said, “You idiots,” and he broke down, didn’t he? Yeah. So when they came to me. I said, “We need a good discussion here.” 

I said, “You told me you were not going to jump this horse.” She said, “There was no rider on his back.” I said, “Have you got an intelligence problem here?” I lost it with them. I did. I said, “Do not you ever ask me to do that again.” And then sooner or later, I just said, “Look, I do not need to go public with you people.” I left the place. And it is a well-renowned place, Spruce Meadows. I just said, “No, I do not need this.” That’s why I’m a man of principle. It helps to be like that, too.

Jacobsen: I’m thinking of other things to ask you. That’s an important question. In your many decades in the industry, what are the values of the farrier community in Canada? Like to the point you mentioned where you have to be a person of principle, you have to step down and say, “I won’t stand for both lying and mistreating a horse.”

Marshall: Yeah, this is a concern throughout many industries within the horse. Quite often, a farrier is asked to do something that he knows full well is not correct for the horse, but it is obliging the owner or the trainer, usually the trainer. The owner won’t do anything that would hurt the horse, but the trainer sometimes want to push it that little bit more and a good owner would say, “No, I want to talk to my farrier” And another owner might say, “Okay. Whatever the trainer said, do it,” and consequently then you have a problem. Who gets the blame for it in there? The farrier. So, it can be unrealistic; in the farrier industry, it can be done with the owners and the veterinarians. So many veterinarians I’ve worked with have been incredible.

Here’s another example. I was at Spruce Meadows again. There was a German horse there. HHe was lame. And the way that the Germans shod this horse was unbelievably wrong, and I was asked to go there and give my opinion. So I gave it. The owner said, “I do not believe what you are saying.” They just said to step aside. I said gladly, “You carry on, but if you keep doing this with this horse, I will guarantee he’ll be finished within a year.” I looked into it a year later, and he was finished. What they did, they used to wedge his shoes off, make the heels higher than the toe was, and change the angle. It puts pressure on the heel of the foot, which is softer than the steel, and crushes them. If you can imagine having no shoes on and somebody putting in a steel wedge under your heel on one foot and walking around with that, what happens to the bottom of your foot? It just gets displaced. Steel won’t move.

I have been successful because I’m so simple. Well, not simple, but simple marketing [Laughing]. As I said, some of the questions you are asking are difficult to answer because I have yet to have any of those problems you asked, but I’ve seen them. I’m trying to answer the best I can for you.

Jacobsen: Following on the point about horse treatment, most of my experiences with people in the show jumping industry, mainly the sports side, riders and trainers and many people; if they’re working with me as stablehands, for instance, they will talk about the horse racing world as probably the worst in the treatment of horses compared to other industries in equestrianism.

Marshall: Yeah, I can see; the horse industry, as far as the racing industry is concerned, is poor in North America. The surface, first of all, of the race is usually sand or gravel or something like that, and it is not natural for a horse to gallop at high speeds through that environment. They should be run on grass, which is entirely natural. Whereas you compare it with Britain, a lot of the race courses, there is still grass. So, it is a natural thing for the horse to go on. A horse can sink into the ground, but when it comes out of the bed, it has enough traction to keep it going forward, whereas in the gravel and the sand, it goes in too much, and sometimes it sticks in the bottom of the foot makes the foot heavier one than the other one. Consequently, they could run better. That’s why we have a lot of problems in the industry in North America in the racing industry.

Now, they started doing something in the show-jumping industry. They came up with fantastic ideas about this false footing: it looks like snow or white Styrofoam, pieces of white Styrofoam. I do not know what it was, but it caused many problems. I’d retired by then, so what the issues were. They’ve taken it off now, which created a lot of lameness. And the other thing, too, we were talking about what the owners do regarding safety for the horse about soundness. Now, what they’re doing, they’re starting to inject the hocks on a perfectly sound horse to prevent it from having a particular problem in the hind leg.

Now, years ago, those problems were never there. So I asked, “Why is it so necessary now?” What it was, it comes back to what I said before; the training is much too fast on run surfaces, so now they start interfering with injections. In other words, instead of finding out what the problem was in the first place and not doing it anymore, they stick an injection in it so it can’t feel anything. Excellent, these injections!

Jacobsen: Some other footing that I’ve seen has been silica rings. It is a different footing than you might see in the wet dirt or the gravel you are talking about. Have you looked into any of that or heard about any of that, the silica footing?

Marshall: I’m unfamiliar with that, so I can’t comment. I do not know. Whatever it was, it needed to be fixed. You cannot beat the natural surface, which is grass. If they can get like grass, it would be great, but you can’t copy grass because it is not just the grass; it is the roots underneath, right? Certain grasses have a shallow heart, which would be no good. Certain grasses have an extended basis, allowing the horse to go into it and come out of it quickly because it has some specific traction. This is what they have so far had in Britain because they do not race on artificial surfaces; they run on grass. So, somebody over here will get their head out of their ass.

Jacobsen: [Laughing] Which facilities do you think are doing an excellent job conducting their competition grounds and their treatment of the foot care of the horse in terms of stuff like that?

Marshall: They’re all doing the same thing. As I said, Spruce Meadows is one of the biggest in the world, but they only have one grass area. No, I’m telling a lie. No, they do not. The main Grand Prix area is grass, so they’ve done an excellent job of that. But they do other sites for the lower standard horse; it is just underneath the top level, and they’re in a gravelly sand thing. But the main area at Spruce Meadows now is grass. That’s an incredible place to be, and it is one of the biggest in the world.

Jacobsen: What kind of grass are they using?

Marshall: I’m still determining what kind of grass it is, but I know it has a pretty good root. So, if they get long and deep into the grass, that helps. If it is one that skirts off the top, that would be no good. So, whatever the grass is, I do not know the names of the grasses, but it has a pretty good root to it. The way they look after these grass fields is just incredible. They do a tremendous job with it. Have you ever been to Spruce Meadows?

Jacobsen: I have not; I would like to do a tour at some point.

Marshall: Where are you based?

Jacobsen: I’m based in Langley, British Columbia. People reading this should know Canada is so big that people in the same provinces do not even know where each other is.

Marshall: Yeah. I’m about 10 miles West of Hope.

Jacobsen: Oh wow, far.

Marshall: One time in Ireland, they had two racehorses, and they were completely equal, and they were shod precisely the same way, but they were shod with steel. Somebody came along and said, “Look, we want to try something.” This is when they first started using aluminum shoes. So they changed the boots on one horse to aluminum and left the other to steel. They raced them again for three days in a row. Every time they ran it, the one with aluminum finished first and was less tired. And they said, “Okay, they should be aluminum.” And that’s where it all started for two horses in Ireland. Interesting, that.

Jacobsen: Yeah. Where do you think the industry will be going into the future? What else could be developed or enhanced?

Marshall: Where is it going to go in the future?

Jacobsen: Yeah, if it hasn’t changed in so long, I couldn’t see it necessarily having any rapid changes, but any industry can make adaptations.

Marshall: Going back to that question before, why do they have to start injecting the hind end on a horse when there’s nothing wrong with it? That’s going in the wrong direction as far as I’m concerned, and if it is adequately conditioned like it used to be years ago, they wouldn’t need to do that. But now it is the time factor; everybody’s in a hurry to get things done super quick, and some things weren’t meant to be done quickly. Sometimes, they have to be developed in time, which is one thing that gets me when they start injecting sound horses in the back end of the hocks to prevent them from going lame. If they conditioned them, they probably wouldn’t go lame in the first place. That’s old-fashioned, but that’s how the industry’s going; it is coming down to sticking more needles in these horses.

They do not get needles when they’re out; the ranch horses do not, and they go up around all day. It always goes back to those ranch horses; they’re good, solid, and healthy as can be, and what? They enjoy what they’re doing. And if you look at a horse and some of these show jumping facilities and walk around, many horses are uncomfortable. You see them in the soil, and they’re going from one leg to another, one leg to another, and they’re not pleased. It comes down to what I said before: good solid conditioning. It is like our feet; if they’re not conditioned, they’re going in a 26-mile race. You better have some conditioning on you because it won’t take 20 miles before you start fatiguing. So you’ve got to be prepared for it. And that’s the same with the horse industry: preparation. And a horse is meant to look ahead and stretch out.

An example of this would be, in Britain again, they have the resources to get conditioned. Well, they do not chase around a little racetrack on the sand like they do over here; they go out in the fields and gallop for miles across up and down hills. That’s all on grass. That’s how they do it over there; consequently, when the British horses run, they hold more records than any other country. The races are more gruelling, but the horses stand up to it because they have been appropriately conditioned on the correct surface: grass. And not only that, when you are riding a horse because I rode horses for a long time when you are riding a horse, a horse wants to look ahead. I mean, they look way, way ahead. They have incredible vision. When they can see ahead and see it safely, you can feel them stretching out underneath you, and they love it; they enjoy it. They know that that surface is good. And I told you before about the shankers/shankars in England, didn’t I?

Jacobsen: You mentioned the word shankers/shankars before. I do not recall this story off the top.

Marshall: Yeah, what it was, it was that their horses used to go into the tide to catch shrimps and so forth and then walked their water up to the withers in the grass and then back, but sometimes they would stop. Now, they can’t see anything, but only those feet and those tactile knows. They knew that if they went ahead, it would be quicksand. So, the driver or the person in charge just let him go, and they turn around and get out of there. So, like I said, the horse has incredible resources and sensitivity to different situations.

Here’s another example. I was riding my horse one day, and I’ve been over these railroad tracks many times to get to the river. And this time, he stopped, and there was no bloody way; he said, ‘Nope, I’m not going,’ I tried and tried. Nope. Anyway, I decided to walk about the other way and about five minutes later a train went fast. Now, how did he know? It must have been the vibrations that he felt, but how did he know a bloody train would come? He saved my life [Laughing]. He was a horse that only had one eye. He had an injury in his eye. Guess what his name was? I hope I’ve been helpful, mate.

Jacobsen: Yeah. There’s one other question I would have, which would be about the health of the farriers themselves. What health concerns should farriers be aware of in their careers?

Marshall: Okay, that’s a good question. First, most of the problems you get are farriers with back issues. Now, sometimes, it is related to the size of the person. I’m short, so everybody said, “You are okay; you are just short.” I said, “No, I’ve nothing to do with it.” Whether you were shoeing 100 years ago or 50 years ago to now, I wasn’t greedy. You’ve only got so many horses in here before you start to get tired, and on average, five horses a day was a good living, and you could stay pretty healthy. But no, some of these people decide that they’re going to shoe seven or eight or nine horses a day and, consequently, their health fatigues. And by the time they’re 60-70 years old, they’re disabled; they can’t stand up. And that’s the way it is.

It was like the racing industry in England. They’d start working on miles, and they never stopped until they’d finished all the horses, and it was just too much. You are back and can only stand so much, right? A lot of those racing people in England who shod racehorses were finished. And I’m fortunate; I’m close to 80 years old, but I’m still reasonably fit and doing okay. I know many people are like me; they look great but are never greedy. Do you know what the thing is? It is good money, there’s no doubt about it. Shoeing horses is damn good money, so what the hell? But in 10 years, you will know the difference if you keep doing that.

Jacobsen: Are there any areas I haven’t covered that should be mentioned in the interview?

Marshall: I think we’ve covered most of it. If they’re getting into this job, make sure they work with somebody qualified because this is the thing: we do not have an apprenticeship system here. They go to school for 12, 14, or 15 weeks or something like that, and that’s it; they’re out. That’s not enough. What they should do is go to school, learn anatomy, learn all the different aspects of the trade, and then make arrangements to go and work with somebody else for at least another two years and get into the industry itself where they are working with horses in the fields and not just the ones that go into the farrier school.

Whereas, you’ve got lots of time in the farrier’s school; you’ve got all the different things, it is pretty nice and so forth, an excellent area to work and then when you get out into the real world it is not always like that. Sometimes, you can be out in the field, tie it to a fence or something like that when you start, and it is not all that wonderful sometimes. So it takes a while. The apprenticeship system in Britain I did five years with my dad and two years somewhere else; I basically did a seven-year apprenticeship. And here, we do not have apprenticeships. So, we’ve got to do the next best thing; you go to the farrier school for so many weeks, and then you get with another farrier and work with them for at least a couple of years, and then you will be okay. At one time, they just sent him out of the school, and that was it. A bit lost, and not only that, it is dangerous because in the farrier school, they do not usually get horses that are, let’s say, unpredictable; or when you get out in the actual field, it can be unpredictable. I’m lucky. I’ve not been kicked yet, but I’ve had two close calls. Did I tell you about that?

Jacobsen: No, how did those go?

Marshall: When I was 15, I worked with my dad, shoeing this big draft horse. He’d never been done before, and I was working on his backhand and turned around to get underneath him on the back on the feet, and I must have tickled his belly. He jumped up in the air, and when he came down, I turned and tried to stop the foot from going on the ground. I didn’t want to let go of it. But with a draft horse, that doesn’t work, and he flipped me. He came down with two hind feet, one on the other side of my head [Laughing]. He was white, absolutely white. Anyway, I got out. I stood there until I got out, and my dad came in. He says, “What’s the matter, lad?” I said, “He did me a jump from the head.” My dad said, “Be careful.” He did not know how lucky I was. [Laughing] I tell you, mate. It is unreal.

Jacobsen: All right. Well, Bob, thank you very much for your extensive time.

Marshall: Whenever you want to do it, mate. We’ll make it work. Thank you.

Bibliography

None

Footnotes

None

Citations

American Medical Association (AMA 11th Edition): Jacobsen S. The Greenhorn Chronicles 51: Bob Marshall, 5-Time World Champion Blacksmith. October 2023; 12(1). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/bob-marshall

American Psychological Association (APA 7th Edition): Jacobsen, S. (2023, October 22). The Greenhorn Chronicles 51: Bob Marshall, 5-Time World Champion Blacksmith. In-Sight Publishing. 12(1).

Brazilian National Standards (ABNT): JACOBSEN, S. The Greenhorn Chronicles 51: Bob Marshall, 5-Time World Champion Blacksmith. In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, Fort Langley, v. 12, n. 1, 2023.

Chicago/Turabian, Author-Date (17th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott. 2023. “The Greenhorn Chronicles 51: Bob Marshall, 5-Time World Champion Blacksmith.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 12, no. 1 (Winter). http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/bob-marshall.

Chicago/Turabian, Notes & Bibliography (17th Edition): Jacobsen, S “The Greenhorn Chronicles 51: Bob Marshall, 5-Time World Champion Blacksmith.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal 12, no. 1 (October 2023).http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/bob-marshall.

Harvard: Jacobsen, S. (2023) ‘The Greenhorn Chronicles 51: Bob Marshall, 5-Time World Champion Blacksmith’, In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, 12(1). <http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/bob-marshall>.

Harvard (Australian): Jacobsen, S 2023, ‘The Greenhorn Chronicles 51: Bob Marshall, 5-Time World Champion Blacksmith’, In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vol. 12, no. 1, <http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/bob-marshall&gt;.

Modern Language Association (MLA, 9th Edition): Jacobsen, Scott. “The Greenhorn Chronicles 51: Bob Marshall, 5-Time World Champion Blacksmith.” In-Sight: Independent Interview-Based Journal, vo.12, no. 1, 2023, http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/bob-marshall.

Vancouver/ICMJE: Scott J. The Greenhorn Chronicles 51: Bob Marshall, 5-Time World Champion Blacksmith [Internet]. 2023 Oct; 12(1). Available from: http://www.in-sightpublishing.com/bob-marshall.

License

In-Sight Publishing by Scott Douglas Jacobsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.

Based on work at www.in-sightpublishing.com.

Copyright

© Scott Douglas Jacobsen and In-Sight Publishing 2012-Present. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this site’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Scott Douglas Jacobsen, or the author(s), and In-Sight Publishing with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. All interviewees and authors copyright their material, as well, and may disseminate for their independent purposes.